Anglican Samizdat

April 30, 2009

The Anglican Church of Canada’s Vision 2019

Filed under: Aniglican Network in Canada — David Jenkins @ 6:10 pm

There are some more interesting comments on the ACoC site. Since I appear to be persona non gratis and can’t leave comments there, here are some observations on recent entries:

Frank Wirrell says:

April 6, 2009 at 11:25 pm

The comments with respect to justice sound good but to thank the Primate is definitely stretching the truth. The lack of any justice toward orthodox parishes and Anglicans can only be described as the work of Satan. The writer should carefully examine his statement that we should get past the same-sex issues. That issue is simply the tip of the iceberg and demonstrates a complete rejection of God’s word. So-called bishops, including the Primate, that are prepared to claim they can bless same-sex unions are not only deceiving themselves but are deceiving and misleading those involved. Each of us has a tendency to sin in one area or another and that includes being involved in homosexual activity or adultery. Rather than endorsing any sin we need to honestly repent and not be led down the garden path by political expediency. If the Primate were honestly interested in justice he would order that all actions against orthodox parishes cease and that apostate bishops resign their positions.

The Rev. Daniel Graves says:

April 28, 2009 at 12:05 pm

I find it disheartening that in an exercise that is intended for the building up of the kingdom of God, we continue to see our bishops characterized in such derisive terms. The primate (and our other bishops) are not “so-called” bishops, they are bishops in the Church of God. Similarly, to toss around a term like apostasy is very unhelpful. The elevation of abusive language in these debates is not at all edifying. In my experience, our Primate has never been anything but gracious. His invitation into this discussion and his willingness to listen to all voices has been most gracious. I hope that we as Canadian Anglicans would reciprocate with a similar graciousness that would be characterized in the tone of our language.

Frank Wirrell, Abbotsford, B.C. says:

April 29, 2009 at 4:17 pm

I have noted the response of Fr. Dan Graves and would ask what he finds offensive in my remarks. Clearly the time has come to call a spade a spade. Bishops, clergy and laity that deny the authority of Scripture and attempt to make such authority subject to a majority vote are apostates – politely but mistakenly called liberals. The Primate might well be gracious under some circumstances but his lack of action to deal with apostasy cannot be and should not be overlooked. Certainly he has not been gracious to orthodox Anglicans. To be a true Anglican one must first be a Christian and when you have so-called bishops proclaiming that all religions lead to the same place, action is mandatory to have them repent or remove them from office.

You cannot build a church on sand but only on the Solid Rock. The Anglican Church of Canada is quickly losing its “right” to be called a church of God and needs to repent and turn back from the sin of political expediency.

One of the significant things about this exchange is the fact that the ACoC’s defender is basing his defence on the use of language, rather than truth. The redoubtable Frank is intent upon calling “a spade a spade” and this is what seems to upset Rev. Daniel.

After all, we are Canadian: what matters is being nice to each other, not the truth.

And to set the record straight, the primate, Fred Hiltz is not as gracious as Rev. Daniel would like us to believe: he is supporting dioceses that are suing the pants off people who disagree with them.



  1. I don’t know Rev Graves, but I have followed Frank’s posts with pleasure at Essentials.
    This is a classic conversation with between the two parties of Anglicanism in Canada. On the one hand Graves is concerned with manners, and on the other Wirrell stands on the Word.
    I’ll stand with Frank any time.

    Comment by Jim Muirhead — May 1, 2009 @ 11:08 am

  2. Seriously, they haven’t accepted any of your comments on their blog? Very strange, given some of the other things they have posted. Maybe you really are on some sort of ACC blacklist. I’m amazed they’re that organized.

    Comment by Andrew — May 2, 2009 @ 10:18 pm

  3. Andrew,

    Yes, my thoughts exactly. My comments were actually less critical than Frank’s above.

    Comment by David — May 2, 2009 @ 10:22 pm

  4. I would recommend that everyone go to Mark Steyn’s website and look at the variety of great titles he is offering. Several on the theme of Canadians liking niceness, but not truth. Amen to that.

    Oh, and don’t miss reading Ezra Levant’s “Shakedown”. He put into words what I first thought as a nine-year-old watching the shenanigans of Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, and hearing his oily speeches on the “new Canada”. I knew I’d be vindicated someday, just didn’t think I would have to wait 40 years. Thank you, Ezra.

    Comment by Ann — May 3, 2009 @ 9:37 pm

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